Starting on November 24th, and ending on December 24th, we will read a chapter of Proverbs each day. Let's use the blog to share "a-ha" moments, questions, and comments.
111 Comments
Dave Halsey
11/19/2014 06:28:00 am
Welcome!
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Brad Miller
11/19/2014 06:36:21 am
Comment deleted
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Steve MacDonald
11/19/2014 07:08:09 am
Checking in for Book of Proverbs.
Dave Halsey
11/20/2014 01:43:26 am
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Brent
11/19/2014 11:01:35 am
Looking forward to starting this after a great Thanksgiving!!!
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11/20/2014 01:36:43 am
I found a really good 1 page fact sheet on Proverbs. If you can read this before we start on Monday (or read the info in your Bible about Proverbs), it will give you a much better feel for the context of this great book of the 1st (Old) Testament.
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brad miller
11/20/2014 01:44:40 am
thanks, very helpful
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Matt Darnell
11/26/2014 03:52:04 am
Great resource. I bookmarked it for future reference.
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Brad Milelr
11/24/2014 01:02:55 am
Good reading guys, this is a test post for the blog!!
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Steve MacDonald
11/24/2014 01:51:01 am
The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel
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David LeBay
11/24/2014 02:02:13 am
I read it Saturday morning on our retreat. Good start to what I'm hoping to creat some planned focus.
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Doug Roehm
11/24/2014 02:10:44 am
Proverbs 1 day :-)
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steve bryan
11/24/2014 02:56:43 am
I am looking forward to a good day tomorrow at the academy, followed by a thankful Thursday and Proverbs on Monday.
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Dave Halsey
11/24/2014 03:49:13 am
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline." 1:7
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Dave Halsey
11/24/2014 03:57:45 am
Question: What does God mean when he says he will "laugh at your disaster", and "mock when calamity overtakes you"? Is that what he does when we don't listen to him and bad things happen? I'd like someone's take on this so that we can learn what God is really trying to say here.
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Steve Mac
11/24/2014 06:07:43 am
Well - one thing for sure. Our interpretation of what we consider a 'disaster' is not going to match God's. He always has a plan...
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Dave Halsaey
11/24/2014 07:12:39 am
True, sometimes what we think is a disaster turns out to be a blessing from God. Only he knows that at the time.
Dave Halsey
11/25/2014 12:29:09 am
At DIG this morning Val prayed that we would "enjoy" our relationship with God and not make it about "doing". That is good wisdom and I think it is what Proverbs is all about. In Proverbs 2, one of the things that jumped out at me is the fact the seeking Wisdom protects us from evil. It is like taking a multi-vitamin every day or more appropriately, putting on our Armor for battle. Let's keep spending time with God and enjoy his presence. One benefit is that our spirit will be stronger and better protected from the flesh and the enemy, and that leads to a better life!
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Matt Darnell
11/26/2014 03:59:31 am
Ok...cheating a bit here as I will be drawing from some (but not all) of the notes I have taken on Proverbs in the recent past as I have been studying them with my boys. To be clear...I am re-reading Proverbs.
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Dave Halsey
11/26/2014 04:32:05 am
Great question. Sin is enticing because it makes promises. But the promises only lead us to more promises. They never deliver! Sin is enticing because it is within our fleshly nature and it seems easier. Sin is based on self-reliance and does not require trust and dependance on God. Sin is kind of like a hitch in your golf swing, or the flaw in my jump shot. I know I should be doing it differently, but the bad habits are there. Only if I practice and focus on the better way will I consistently apply it. The better way is more difficult, but it delivers better results and over time becomes the new habit.
David LeBay
11/25/2014 09:43:25 am
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Matt Darnell
11/26/2014 04:06:45 am
Proverbs 2
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Vallen Prest
12/3/2014 02:00:50 am
Matt - Dave invited me to read your blog and I was struck by your comment. I have fallen in love with the concept of aggressive patience! Patience is something that I struggle with sometimes. Perhaps it is because I consider it passive. But to learn to be aggressive in my pursuit and practice of patience allows me to think of this challenge in a more proactive way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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Dave Halsey
11/28/2014 04:20:04 am
Proverbs 6 is essential to the married man or woman, and every young man preparing for marriage should know this. We are not to share our dreams or personal issues with other woman. We are not to be alone in a non-accountable way with another woman. Our energy is to be focused on our wife. We should not fall for smooth words and affection, things that we think might be missing in our marriage at times. Following that path leads to destruction and we can't take it back. The more we prepare and are on guard, we will recognize when 'the fantasy" approaches. Praying for continued strength and courage for all of us in this area and that we all be protected with the Armor of God!
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Dave
11/28/2014 04:22:00 am
Whoops, Proverbs 5 I meant.
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Steve
11/28/2014 05:00:50 am
This includes being alone with an 'image' or 'video' of another woman as well. Already known...Just repeating what Dave has said before.
Dave Halsey
11/29/2014 03:19:39 am
Proverbs 6:16-19. Hey if someone wants to take a crack and summarizing what this means, I'd be very interested. 6 things that God Hates and 7 that are detestable? What is the 7th?
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Matt Darnell
11/29/2014 04:53:59 am
To start...a flawed jump shot (to your analogy on sin, KD). God detests that.
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Matt Darnell
11/29/2014 05:36:42 am
Ok...here is another stab at this as I was thinking about it. The 10 Commandments came to mind. Keep in mind that the commandments are mentioned I think in two places in the Bible...Exodus and Deuteronomy. So...
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Brad Miller
11/29/2014 06:44:40 am
Matt excellent summary and commentary. I found this summary on the web. Pretty much agrees with your interpretations.
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Dave Halsey
11/29/2014 07:13:19 am
Wow! You guys really brought it! Seems to me that God hates things that we do that are in direct opposition to him. I bet Adultery would be a result or a subset of 1 or more of the 7. Also, Matt made an interesting point on Murder. Yes, there is a difference between killing and murder and we can have some fun with that one. We have the power to do harm to someone physically, emotionally, and spiritually. We can also sin in our own heart by how we think of others or how angry we become. Good stuff! I learned a few new things!
Matt Darnell
11/30/2014 11:16:08 pm
Brad...this is an interesting line from one of your Scripture quotes:
Steve MacDonald
11/30/2014 05:33:47 am
Although he may hate adultry, murder, slavery, rape...etc...They who commit such acts can also be saved. And...Those who have such acts inflicted on them may feel peace again. It's in the complete surrender to God and forgoing our own 'Human' understanding. I for one am still working on that...But I know it's available.
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Matt Darnell
11/30/2014 11:20:18 pm
Proverbs 8
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Dave Halsey
12/1/2014 05:29:02 am
Agreed Matthew. There were a couple things that made me go "hmmm". First of all Proverbs 8:10-11. How easy it is to say yes to worldly things without seeking wisdom about it first. I think Wisdom helps us see the dangers and warning signs of careless decisions before we make them. Wisdom knows the difference and gives us the knowledge and discernment we need to stay on the right path. It doesn't make us perfect of course, but it protects us from sin and bad choices. Also, this chapter jumps around a little bit because also comes from Jesus explaining that he was there, outside of time, before man, and that he is the alpha and omega. Considering that Solomon didn't know exactly who Jesus was, or is, pretty amazing that he wrote about him in this way. This again points to the fact that both the First (Old) and Second (New) Testaments are all about God's rescue mission for mankind through Jesus, and that even people who came before Jesus still knew him. Finally, verse 35-36 says it all. "Whoever finds me finds life".
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Matt Darnell
12/1/2014 02:57:21 pm
Proverbs 9 - this is a pretty heady one.
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Ari M
12/2/2014 05:00:01 am
'The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge/wisdom' is found in 3 places: Prov 1:7, Prov 9:10, Psa 111:10. It must be important.
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Matt Darnell
12/3/2014 12:28:16 am
Chatty Kathy here. No doubt Proverbs switches gears here in chapter 10. As my one study Bible puts it, "Chapters 1-9 contain discourses on wisdom. From here to the end of the book the sayings are proverbs proper."
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Steve MacDonald
12/3/2014 12:47:05 am
The proverbs of Solomon: A wise son brings joy to his father, but a foolish son grief to his mother. -- Obviously this one was difficult. I worry about my brother and the grief he brought. I know there is a deeper meaning hidden here. 'Father' must mean God. What could 'Mother' mean outside of our earthly parent?
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Dave Halsey
12/3/2014 01:28:24 am
Steven, I would actually take this one pretty literally. Keep in mind that if the wise son brings joy to his father, than his mother will also have joy. If a foolish son brings grief to his mother, than the father will have grief. The father and the mother are connected in such a way. In my experience, when the mom is not happy it is worse, which is interesting to me that Solomon tied the foolish son to the Mother, and not the Father. Finally, the "deeper meaning" is always about YOU and ME, and our role in the situation or that other person's life.
Dave Halsey
12/3/2014 01:24:29 am
Matthew, I haven't read 10 yet but I'm pretty amazed by how this Proverb directly ties to Matthew 6:24 and 1 Timothy 6:10. Wealth and Money is not the problem. It is the "Love Of" these things that causes the problem. Do we worry about losing it? Do we really believe it is ours to begin with? Do we compare ourselves with others? Is it important for us to make sure our needs are taken care of first before we help others? Do we have to win? Do we give generously of our time and money? To the degree we answer these questions, I would argue we are trying to serve 2 masters which is what causes things like guilt, fear, disconnect, lack of peace, etc.. God is always asking us to check our motives and change if we are a divided.
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Dave Halsey
12/3/2014 02:01:13 am
Correction: Is it important for us to make sure our "wants" (not needs) are taken care of first before we help others? The only thing we "need" is 1) God, 2) Food/Water, and 3) Shelter/Clothing.
Vallen Prest
12/3/2014 02:16:29 am
Matt - you have hit the "proverbial" nail on the head when referring to the concept of the Word of God being a living document. We can spend a lifetime in study and never plum the depths of it yet it is simple enough that a child can understand it's basic teachings.
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brad miller
12/3/2014 02:26:49 am
Matt, Dave and Val, great comments! I can only hope to live to a ripe old age to gain all of this hidden knowledge. I guess a better first master the simple pieces of wisdom provided in Proverbs. Like Dave said, we only need God, food and shelter! Everything else we have is icing on the cake and a blessing from God!!
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Matt Darnell
12/3/2014 02:48:04 am
Wow...excellent commentary by all. Really charges me up.
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Matt Darnell
12/6/2014 11:21:20 am
Good Saturday evening to all. Thank God for weekends!
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Dave Halsey
12/7/2014 01:33:38 am
Matt, I'm glad you posted. I had highlighted a couple lines in Chapter 13 but needed a little catalyst like you to put it in perspective. 1
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Brad
12/7/2014 09:18:51 am
Proverbs 14:12 spoke to me. There is a path before each person that SEEMS right, but in ends in death.
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Matt Darnell
12/8/2014 10:32:18 pm
I hear ya. Me too. Listening and trusting for sure. Many "voices" compete for your attention. I have read and experienced that many times God's voice is a whisper inside of you. How do you filter out all the noise in your life to hear that whisper? Following is a summary from our pastor during a church service a few weeks back:
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Dave Halsey
12/9/2014 07:04:16 am
Brad, this theme is repeated in 14:12, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads him to death." This goes back to avoiding the easy-way-out, not taking shortcuts, and not leaning on our own understand, but that of God's Will.
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Brad
12/9/2014 08:20:53 am
Yeah. I think that is the verse I referenced earlier. Pretty cool to see Jay in Bible study today. He really can impact young African American kids in Detroit
Steve MacDonald
12/7/2014 11:15:46 pm
The house of the righteous contains great treasure,
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Matt
12/8/2014 10:37:59 pm
I'm with ya. You are so right. I took a picture this past Sunday of a memorial in front of our church that your post reminded me of. I will send to you the pic separately. It reads (in part):
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Matt Darnell
12/8/2014 10:56:12 pm
Good morning all. Some quick hits on P15 and P16.
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Steve MacDonald
12/8/2014 11:03:00 pm
The eyes of the Lord are everywhere,
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Dave Halsey
12/9/2014 07:19:14 am
Matt,
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Brad
12/9/2014 08:49:24 am
In my study Bible 15:20 states foolish children despise their mother. I take that to mean we should always respect our parents. I think mother and father are interchangeable in both sentences.
Matt
12/10/2014 01:54:25 am
Thank you for your posts. They really help me in so many ways.
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Brad
12/10/2014 09:46:03 am
P17 has a few repeats and talks again about wisdom and fools. The best one is P17:17
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Dave Halsey
12/11/2014 02:57:10 am
Brad, this is interesting because my Bible says that "a brother is born for adversity." Same meaning but so true that as brothers we love each other unconditionally, and when the going gets tough we are not going to pull a Bobby Ross and "Abandon Ship". I know I can count on you and you can count on me.
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Dave Halsey
12/11/2014 02:54:18 am
Jumping into 18 today but a couple parting thoughts.
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Brad
12/11/2014 03:09:45 am
16:1 God gave all of us free will and therefore He is not in control of everything. Not not mention Satan always tempting us to make bad choices.
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Brad
12/11/2014 10:34:10 am
P18
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Steve MacDonald
12/12/2014 12:29:22 am
Proverbs 18:24 -- AMEN!
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Dave Halsey
12/12/2014 04:06:58 am
Chapter 19 is PACKED!!
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Brad Miller
12/12/2014 09:31:52 am
All very powerful verses Dave. The only other one that struck me is P19:18 "Discipline your children while there is hope, If you don't , you will ruin their lives"
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Matt Darnell
12/13/2014 04:43:23 am
Wow...you guys are seriously rocking it. Sitting here by myself at a Starbucks this morning with some free time. Being redundant here but oh well. The back and forth between reading Proverbs directly and then reading your thoughts on the ones that stick in the moment...priceless. This has been foundational to me.
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Dave Halsey
12/13/2014 05:46:53 am
Matthias,
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Matt
12/13/2014 08:55:00 am
Thanks for the help on 20:18. Makes sense.
Brad
12/14/2014 04:06:30 am
Just read P21, verses 2&30 reiterate the theme of us planning or doing what we think is right versus allowing God's will to lead us.
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Matt
12/15/2014 11:43:53 pm
Hey Brad:
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Steve MacDonald
12/15/2014 12:32:14 am
The plans of the diligent lead to profit
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Matt
12/15/2014 11:44:48 pm
So true, Steve!
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brad
12/15/2014 11:48:30 pm
Matt I agree with you 100%, but could these verses be used by some to justify divorce? There is another verse that states only adulterous wife can justify divorce so I would take these only to be cautionary for men about to marry...
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Dave Halsey
12/16/2014 02:24:43 am
I also found the "quarrelsome wife" entries a bit perplexing. You can find very similar statements in 19:13, 21:9, and 21:19. To me, this is clearly a warning about making sure you choose the right mate, someone who also takes her authority from God. Solomon is talking about the consequences of marrying someone for the wrong reasons or not having your God Goggles on when you are choosing your partner. I do not believe these statements are meant to justify divorce or leaving your spouse.
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Steve MacDonald
12/17/2014 01:11:25 am
So here's one:
Matt
12/17/2014 07:00:41 am
Quick answer (at work right now...see my next entry)...I would say no. There are other Scripture passages that deal with that more directly. Basically...divorce due to infidelity (if I am not mistaken; I will have to support that later).
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Matt Darnell
12/17/2014 01:49:39 pm
Brad...I'm cheating by taking a total shortcut on my follow-up to your question. Following is cut and paste from a website I found while quickly researching this. To be totally up front...this excerpt makes sense to me. Having a quarrelsome wife may be the result of a choice made early on without God's total guidance...in other words, you suffer the consequences like we often do when making any decision without consulting God. However, God can still use that choice for his glory. Loren once shared with me his thoughts on how God can completely turn a situation around for His glory once you bring Him into the mix. This would apply with a quarrelsome wife. Here is that excerpt:
Brad
12/18/2014 01:21:02 am
Thanks Matt, this is very helpful indeed. I do not consider it cheating at all. There are many great resources out there on the Bible and all of them are for one purpose only, to further educate all of us in the Word. Even more interesting is the different views/opinions that have been shared in this blog. Wow, what a great idea and outstanding way to dig deeper into the Bible. Lastly I wanted to add a disclaimer that I am not judging anyone who has been divorced or considering a divorce. I am only asking these questions to better understand what God's word is trying to tell us in this situation.
Dave Halsey
12/17/2014 01:19:31 am
Steven,
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Matt
12/17/2014 07:08:47 am
Hey Guys...at work right now...3pm on a Wedneday. Been a long day (and week) so far. Thought I would take a breather with some scripture. I very rarely check this website...however...just now...I clicked on it (it is a shortcut on my toolbar). Check it out. Coincidence? Absolutely not. Does a good job of characterizing what we have been doing over the last 23 days...the next 8 days...and more importanly...EVERY DAY hereafter. God You are Awesome!
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Brad
12/17/2014 11:37:32 am
P24:1 we should not envy the non believers.
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Matt
12/17/2014 02:03:17 pm
Me too Brad on 11&12. You are right I believe...ignorance is not an excuse. I would also liken this to your conscience...that deep still voice inside of you that knows your true motivations. "But we knew nothing about this"? Nah...don't kid yourself...you know...and therefore you must act. In other words...this is a call to action...a call to courage.
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Matt
12/17/2014 02:52:03 pm
Quick tangental observation here...I just noticed the time stamps on our blogs are West Coast time. What clued me in was a time stamp of 6:00am for MacDonald. No way that lazy ass is blogging on Proverbs at 6:00am... ;-)
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Steven C. MacDonald
12/17/2014 11:30:09 pm
Mathias - You must shower in the word 24/7 baby! Time is of no matter!!! Place your focus on what truly matters you off the narrow path bastard!
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Dave Halsey
12/18/2014 01:45:23 am
Whoops, I updated the time zone to Eastern.
Brad
12/18/2014 11:36:34 am
Great insight Matt to some pretty deep verses. My study bible sums it pretty well on the subject of picking the right wife: "Solomon isn't saying that men should divorce wives who have these characteristics. Instead he is warning those who aren't yet married to think about long-term compatibility. When you live with the same woman for decades which is what newly married people commit to superficial attractions may prove insufficient in the long run."
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Matt
12/20/2014 08:16:14 am
@ Brad. Bingo.
brad
12/18/2014 01:59:43 am
now I am confused, will my posts from this morning be PCT or EST?
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Brad
12/19/2014 09:05:15 am
P26 talks a lot about fools. They have no honor, need to be guided with a rod to their backs, don't argue with them or you will become foolish but you do need to respond to them or they may think they are wise. Certainly don't let fools quote scripture or trust them to convey a message, finally don't hire them.
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Matt
12/20/2014 08:32:56 am
How about the one two punch of P26:4-5. On the surface they appear completely contradictory...although one says "don't follow" while the other says "answer them."
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Brad
12/20/2014 06:27:25 am
P27:17 is the band of brothers calling card "as iron sharpens iron a friend sharpens a friend "
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Dave Halsey
12/20/2014 06:45:27 am
So true Brad. I also liked 27:6 which says, "wounds from a friend can be trusted.", which is another statement pointing towards accountability and being willing to accept criticism from a brother. It's hard for me to accept criticism but I always appreciate it after the fact. I need to know where my blind spots are and will never turn my back on someone who is trying to help me out of love.
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Brad
12/20/2014 07:25:01 am
Ha, I purposely skipped over 15&16, but you just could not let it go could you...
Matt
12/20/2014 08:43:48 am
Brad...would you stop nagging please and just let that "quarrelsome" thing go? ;-)
Brad
12/21/2014 02:13:23 am
This is a tough one Matt. Our faith is usually tested by our trials and tribulations in life, not praise. My interpretation of this verse is that we should remain humble even when we are praised for a job well done. Praise can lead to pride and pride can lead to us thinking we are in control.
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Dave Halsey
12/21/2014 03:28:19 am
Interesting timing on this topic. I heard Coach Jim Caldwell just recently say, "For every 100 men than can handle adversity, only 1 man can handle prosperity." This might also relate to the scripture stating that it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Praise and Prosperity can make us prideful and lazy if we are not on guard, and Proverbs warns us about that over and over again. That is why the scripture verse, "to much whom is given, much is expected" is so important. God isn't concerned about our comfort or our circumstances, he is always concerned about our character and what we are doing with the gifts he has given us. He has invested in us like a treasure and wants to see how much we can return on that investment. Like the parable of the talents, where each man was given a certain amount of talents to invest, and the one guy that buried it out of fear and didn't grow his investment was thrown out, where there is "wailing and gnashing of teeth". I don't want to be part of that. No sir!
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Matt
12/22/2014 01:45:35 am
I really like that quote from Caldwell. From a sports perspective...how many professional athletes have you seen totally squander the prosperity they have received as a result of their hard work, sacrifice and talents? Believe me...I'm not judging at all. I can't imagine the amount of work and sacrifice they have put into getting to where they are.
Matt
12/22/2014 01:34:46 am
I think that sums it up perfectly.
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Matt
12/22/2014 02:21:56 am
That last comment was directed at Brad's last response to the question of what P27:21 means. Thx.
Brad
12/21/2014 05:51:21 am
P28 talks a lot about honesty and greed. P28:2 is concerning. A nations government topples easily when there is moral rot in that nation. Sometimes you have to wonder where our country is going at times.
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Steve MacDonald
12/22/2014 12:01:13 am
Not sure how to put into words...There are some that chase the dollar. That is their 'God'. Going after wealth and living what they think is the best life this world has to offer. However, this is so temporary. It is almost 2015...Do those that enjoyed great richness for 30 or 40 years have eternal life today? Maybe some...But most do not I am guessing. You cannot exchange a comfortable living in this world for eternal peace. And yet - Obeying his commandments and working hard will leave you all you need on this world as well as life everlasting in the next.
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Matt
12/22/2014 03:19:57 am
Your last sentence...so true!
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Dave Halsey
12/22/2014 04:30:48 am
Well stated Steven!
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Matt
12/22/2014 03:43:48 am
Ok...had to post this as it caught my. 3 different translations, 3 different meanings?
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Matt
12/22/2014 04:21:15 am
Home stretch here. Proverbs 29 with 2 more to go.
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Dave Halsey
12/23/2014 12:55:57 am
Good stuff Matthew. Wanted to respond to a couple of your points.
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Matt
12/23/2014 01:17:21 am
P30 switches gears a bit with the literary style. I like the analogies to nature and what it can teach us. For instance...P30:24-28.
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Dave Halsey
12/23/2014 08:16:17 am
Yes, Chp. 30 is different. My book says "Sayings of Agur", so these are not from Solomon.
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Brad
12/24/2014 11:39:57 am
Guys, this was an awesome exercise. DH thanks for the challenge. I learned a lot and actually enjoyed the reading. There were many thought provoking comments from all of you.
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Dave Halsey
12/25/2014 04:03:24 am
Thanks Brad! This was just another reminder of how powerful God's "living" Word is and why we need to regularly "shower in the Word", as Matt always reminds us. I find it interesting that King Solomon probably wrote the first 29 chapters, Agur wrote 30, and King Lemuel wrote 31. Maybe these guys were part of their own Band of Brothers. They were obviously less than perfect but I have to assume their kingdom was in good hands under their leadership because 1) They ruled under the authority of the ultimate ruler - meaning their authority was God first!, 2) They humbled themselves to seek wisdom, listen, and write it down for others, 3) They respected and loved their people and women, which most Kings would not have cared about, 4) They worked very hard to build a culture based on God's character.
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